Discussion:
A question for Alan Baggett
(too old to reply)
herbnormore
2004-01-27 00:36:56 UTC
Permalink
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Nemesis
2004-01-27 01:10:11 UTC
Permalink
He became a fair minded individual unable to cope with further
whoredome and treatury against his fellow man.

I take it you're still at the treason troth?
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Alan Baggett
2004-01-27 21:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.

Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.

Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.

Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).

Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
herbnormore
2004-01-30 20:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
Nemesis
2004-01-30 22:58:37 UTC
Permalink
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.

Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.

Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
Nemesis
2004-01-30 23:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Alan, please shed some additional light on goon Herby, he has become
of interest to me. Whatever information you might share would be
helpful. Age, career history, marital status, sexual orientation,
place of residence, but most importantly embarrassing little details
are important.

This hypocritical scum is accusing you of breaching confidentiality
yet as a current employee of CCRA is spilling the beans on Daniel
Lavigne. This is typical of gov-goon double standards.

These filthy degenerates are collecting tax dollars used against the
interests of the people in every way, we're not just talking about
government waste but actual treason.

Check out the following link for one among hundreds of examples.
www.lifeboatnews.com

Free trade, monetary policy, privatization of publicly funded
projects, globalization, government collusion with drug trafficking,
suspicious assassinations, selective prosecutions and investigations,
smear campaigns against resisters etc etc etc etc, all these things
have been well exposed and documented by credible insiders and well
informed sources in some cases at the cost of peoples lives.

Then we have a plethora of illegal gun control laws, illegal search
and seizure laws, illegal law to violate our rights against government
fabricated terrorist, illegal secret evidence laws, illegal laws to
force us to consume poison, laws to steal from us, laws that limit our
rights to information, illegal laws that interfere with our right to
travel and to our commercial pursuits, etc etc etc.

We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to deprive our
treasonous government of its revenues and to mount opposition in every
way.

Do your part.

Nemesis.
Post by Nemesis
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.
Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.
Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
Tony Sparr
2004-01-31 03:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Alan, please shed some additional light on goon Herby, he has become
of interest to me. Whatever information you might share would be
helpful. Age, career history, marital status, sexual orientation,
place of residence, but most importantly embarrassing little details
are important.
This hypocritical scum is accusing you of breaching confidentiality
yet as a current employee of CCRA is spilling the beans on Daniel
Lavigne. This is typical of gov-goon double standards.
These filthy degenerates are collecting tax dollars used against the
interests of the people in every way, we're not just talking about
government waste but actual treason.
Check out the following link for one among hundreds of examples.
www.lifeboatnews.com
Free trade, monetary policy, privatization of publicly funded
projects, globalization, government collusion with drug trafficking,
suspicious assassinations, selective prosecutions and investigations,
smear campaigns against resisters etc etc etc etc, all these things
have been well exposed and documented by credible insiders and well
informed sources in some cases at the cost of peoples lives.
Then we have a plethora of illegal gun control laws, illegal search
and seizure laws, illegal law to violate our rights against government
fabricated terrorist, illegal secret evidence laws, illegal laws to
force us to consume poison, laws to steal from us, laws that limit our
rights to information, illegal laws that interfere with our right to
travel and to our commercial pursuits, etc etc etc.
We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to deprive our
treasonous government of its revenues and to mount opposition in every
way.
Do your part.
Nemesis.
Post by Nemesis
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.
Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.
Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet, and, they do not want anyone to know of the harm they do …

Come on, people, let us start naming the warm bodies from CCRA from
all over the country … The REAL names of the gov-goons who have
damaged you, or anyone you know.

There is no such thing as defamation/libel when we simply tell the
truth … a concept that is totally alien to anyone from CCRA.


Tony
Nemesis
2004-01-31 03:19:39 UTC
Permalink
In fact somebody should start a web page identifying all gov-goon
co-conspirators who aid or abett government racketeering and the
looting of the peoples property.

Name, address, phone numbera photograph, the nature of their offence
against the people, this should include judges, politicans, snivels,
goons, and all related rabble.

In short any worthless thug who spends his time looting the property
of others instead of earning a living like the rest of us must be
included in this exposition. The many good judges, bureaucrats and
government officers will naturally be exluded.

I would offer financial support for such a project. We would need a
team of investigators who study political corruption, judicial
decisions, collect data, take photographs of individuals, and write
reports etc. We would place adds in major newspapers inviting public
participation.

Any government official who refuses to divulge government information
to which the people are always entitled is immediately included in the
list.

Goon Herby for example gets an honourable mention as monkey moron
gov-goon of the year. (Government Investigator my ass, this fuck used
to work with Alan Baggett for CCRA) Ladies bathroom gossip liason in
charge of stealing peoples chump change maybe!

What do you think people?

Nemesis
Post by Tony Sparr
Post by Nemesis
Alan, please shed some additional light on goon Herby, he has become
of interest to me. Whatever information you might share would be
helpful. Age, career history, marital status, sexual orientation,
place of residence, but most importantly embarrassing little details
are important.
This hypocritical scum is accusing you of breaching confidentiality
yet as a current employee of CCRA is spilling the beans on Daniel
Lavigne. This is typical of gov-goon double standards.
These filthy degenerates are collecting tax dollars used against the
interests of the people in every way, we're not just talking about
government waste but actual treason.
Check out the following link for one among hundreds of examples.
www.lifeboatnews.com
Free trade, monetary policy, privatization of publicly funded
projects, globalization, government collusion with drug trafficking,
suspicious assassinations, selective prosecutions and investigations,
smear campaigns against resisters etc etc etc etc, all these things
have been well exposed and documented by credible insiders and well
informed sources in some cases at the cost of peoples lives.
Then we have a plethora of illegal gun control laws, illegal search
and seizure laws, illegal law to violate our rights against government
fabricated terrorist, illegal secret evidence laws, illegal laws to
force us to consume poison, laws to steal from us, laws that limit our
rights to information, illegal laws that interfere with our right to
travel and to our commercial pursuits, etc etc etc.
We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to deprive our
treasonous government of its revenues and to mount opposition in every
way.
Do your part.
Nemesis.
Post by Nemesis
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.
Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.
Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet, and, they do not want anyone to know of the harm they do …
Come on, people, let us start naming the warm bodies from CCRA from
all over the country … The REAL names of the gov-goons who have
damaged you, or anyone you know.
There is no such thing as defamation/libel when we simply tell the
truth … a concept that is totally alien to anyone from CCRA.
Tony
Tony Sparr
2004-01-31 08:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Name, address, phone numbera photograph, the nature of their offence
against the people, this should include judges, politicans, snivels,
goons, and all related rabble.
In short any worthless thug who spends his time looting the property
of others instead of earning a living like the rest of us must be
included in this exposition. The many good judges, bureaucrats and
government officers will naturally be exluded.
I would offer financial support for such a project. We would need a
team of investigators who study political corruption, judicial
decisions, collect data, take photographs of individuals, and write
reports etc. We would place adds in major newspapers inviting public
participation.
Any government official who refuses to divulge government information
to which the people are always entitled is immediately included in the
list.
Goon Herby for example gets an honourable mention as monkey moron
gov-goon of the year. (Government Investigator my ass, this fuck used
to work with Alan Baggett for CCRA) Ladies bathroom gossip liason in
charge of stealing peoples chump change maybe!
What do you think people?
Nemesis
There is one page that that has started NAMING THE WARM BODIES FROM
CCRA

The graphic is inspired – a devilish vampire, clutching dollars with
fingernails like a can-opener and wearing a tie saying CCRA

http://www.al-ccraeda.com/chronicles/001.htm

THE SHEARING OF SHERRIN

Starting on January 30, 2001 with a Requirement to Pay (RTP) issued by
P. FRANCIS over the illegally rubber-stamped facsimile signature of
KEN SLAWSON, and, thereafter by a six RTP's rubber-stamp signed by
JOBINA MCLEOD and yet another four RTP's issued by ROD MILLER, all
capped by the final flourish of ALLAN TOCHER. Sherrin was being
systematically bombed out business and was at her wit's end.

Meanwhile, for good measure, tax refunds totalling $ 12,702,32 were
transferred from her income tax account to offset wild and highly
inaccurate GST assessments that were being assessed.

When I met Sherrin for the first time in March, 2003 she was in
desperate cash straits. Endless garnishees had drained her cash. I
reviewed her records from 1994 on, and soon realised that she owed
neither income tax nor GST. To the contrary it was clear that she had
been massively over-assessed and because of the wholesale statutory
theft of her salary she was due for a large tax refund.

Her tax troubles had been caused by an incompetent auditor named
RICHARD YOUNG who had added $ 8,538.08 to the years 1994, 1995 and
1996. It was quite clear that YOUNG had no idea of what he was doing,
yet, unfortunately since those three years had become statute-barred
there was nothing to be done about it.

For the next three years - 1997, 1998 and 1999 - Sherrin had a total
GST net liability of $ 2,410.37, an accurate computation which put the
lie to YOUNG'S earlier grotesque assessments. Then, for the years 2000
and 2001 Victoria's al-CCRAeda office went totally berserk and
assessed her $ 12,444.63 for GST.

By June 2003, all of Sherrin's GST and Income Tax returns had been
completed and filed, and she had a total refund of about $ 14,000.00
due to be paid to her.

Sherrin needed her refund in the worst way so I asked tax collector
HESPE to attend to it. Seven months and about eight HESPE letters
later Sherrin still awaits her money.

Meanwhile, since last June, the al-CCRAeda minions have decided to be
difficult! After waiting five months, and failing to respond to
numerous requests for her refund the VITSO al-CCRAeda decided to
demand an audit and an inspection of her business premises, together
with an "interview", before they would agree to refund her money.

Having massively over-assessed her in the first place, and then
over-garnisheeing her salary and customer accounts, and finally,
having waited the best part of 2003, at the last moment they decide to
demand to audit her records.

This shameless shearing of Sherrin is an arch example of the
deplorable standards of conduct and performance of al-CCRAeda. From
the very beginning this sordid affair has brought into sharp focus the
ineptitude, moral turpitude and shoddy practices that characterise
al-CCRAeda's operations as it sluices off the wealth of Canadians for
waste and profligate indulgence on wasteful projects and pocket-lining
ventures of people living well off the taxpayers and the federal
government.

The Sherrin debacle throws up the terrible damage inflicted on
taxpayers by auditors who are not accountants and do not know how to
audit. It turns the spotlight on collection clerks who complete stacks
of al-CCRAeda's tax demand forms to circulate with reckless abandon
and at random among clusters of local banks. Clerical tiddlers with
the statutory jaws of tiger sharks are empowered by Canada's draconian
Income Tax Act to destroy at a stroke of a pen the integrity,
reputation and livelihood of any person who suffers the misfortune to
become entangled in al-CCRAeda's coils.

The Sherrin affair brings to light the arrogance and rudeness of
run-of-the-mill clerks who can't be bothered to respond to letters
from taxpayers.

The collector HESPE, for instance, who made a special call on a
Victoria business owner to coerce him into diverting Sherrin's account
of $ 945.18 to al-CCRAeda even though she knew quite well Sherrin had
already overpaid her GST by several thousands of dollars CHOSE TO
IGNORE letters mailed to her on May 28, June 4, June 7, June 10, June
17, June 20, June 21, June 23, June 27, July 25 and August 5, 2003
about Sherrin's account. It is strangely characteristic of many of
al-CCRAeda's clerks that they seem to believe if they disregard
letters they receive from taxpayers then the taxpayers will go away.
But taxpayers will not go away.

The unfortunate Sherrin affair is but one of thousands of Canadian
taxpayers caught up in the officious and high handed treatment by
pushy al-CCRAedarites. In the course of one year, it is possible,
perhaps, to intercept a dozen or so victimised taxpayers and render
them assistance, but it is like taking a thimble to Niagara to stem
the flow.

Nonetheless we do manage on occasion to intercede with some success.
To appear shortly in this series we shall relate the woeful tales of
Poor John of Kamloops, Black Thursday on Vincent Avenue, The Fort St.
John $1.5 million short-order cook, and the Rape of Bonny Munn.
Al-CCRAeda's Chamber of Horrors is full of them.

Sooner or later Canadians will awaken to the realisation that they
live in a country under the yoke of a federal government that is out
of control, and whose maladministered operations rely on its
taxation-terrorist arm, al-CCRAeda.

al-CCRAeda simply has to go, together with the insidious cult of
al-CCRAedarism and its equally noxious mobs of al-CCRAedarites.
Nemesis
2004-01-31 19:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for sharing, it's a good start.

Nemisis
Post by Tony Sparr
Post by Nemesis
Name, address, phone numbera photograph, the nature of their offence
against the people, this should include judges, politicans, snivels,
goons, and all related rabble.
In short any worthless thug who spends his time looting the property
of others instead of earning a living like the rest of us must be
included in this exposition. The many good judges, bureaucrats and
government officers will naturally be exluded.
I would offer financial support for such a project. We would need a
team of investigators who study political corruption, judicial
decisions, collect data, take photographs of individuals, and write
reports etc. We would place adds in major newspapers inviting public
participation.
Any government official who refuses to divulge government information
to which the people are always entitled is immediately included in the
list.
Goon Herby for example gets an honourable mention as monkey moron
gov-goon of the year. (Government Investigator my ass, this fuck used
to work with Alan Baggett for CCRA) Ladies bathroom gossip liason in
charge of stealing peoples chump change maybe!
What do you think people?
Nemesis
There is one page that that has started NAMING THE WARM BODIES FROM
CCRA
The graphic is inspired – a devilish vampire, clutching dollars with
fingernails like a can-opener and wearing a tie saying CCRA
http://www.al-ccraeda.com/chronicles/001.htm
THE SHEARING OF SHERRIN
Starting on January 30, 2001 with a Requirement to Pay (RTP) issued by
P. FRANCIS over the illegally rubber-stamped facsimile signature of
KEN SLAWSON, and, thereafter by a six RTP's rubber-stamp signed by
JOBINA MCLEOD and yet another four RTP's issued by ROD MILLER, all
capped by the final flourish of ALLAN TOCHER. Sherrin was being
systematically bombed out business and was at her wit's end.
Meanwhile, for good measure, tax refunds totalling $ 12,702,32 were
transferred from her income tax account to offset wild and highly
inaccurate GST assessments that were being assessed.
When I met Sherrin for the first time in March, 2003 she was in
desperate cash straits. Endless garnishees had drained her cash. I
reviewed her records from 1994 on, and soon realised that she owed
neither income tax nor GST. To the contrary it was clear that she had
been massively over-assessed and because of the wholesale statutory
theft of her salary she was due for a large tax refund.
Her tax troubles had been caused by an incompetent auditor named
RICHARD YOUNG who had added $ 8,538.08 to the years 1994, 1995 and
1996. It was quite clear that YOUNG had no idea of what he was doing,
yet, unfortunately since those three years had become statute-barred
there was nothing to be done about it.
For the next three years - 1997, 1998 and 1999 - Sherrin had a total
GST net liability of $ 2,410.37, an accurate computation which put the
lie to YOUNG'S earlier grotesque assessments. Then, for the years 2000
and 2001 Victoria's al-CCRAeda office went totally berserk and
assessed her $ 12,444.63 for GST.
By June 2003, all of Sherrin's GST and Income Tax returns had been
completed and filed, and she had a total refund of about $ 14,000.00
due to be paid to her.
Sherrin needed her refund in the worst way so I asked tax collector
HESPE to attend to it. Seven months and about eight HESPE letters
later Sherrin still awaits her money.
Meanwhile, since last June, the al-CCRAeda minions have decided to be
difficult! After waiting five months, and failing to respond to
numerous requests for her refund the VITSO al-CCRAeda decided to
demand an audit and an inspection of her business premises, together
with an "interview", before they would agree to refund her money.
Having massively over-assessed her in the first place, and then
over-garnisheeing her salary and customer accounts, and finally,
having waited the best part of 2003, at the last moment they decide to
demand to audit her records.
This shameless shearing of Sherrin is an arch example of the
deplorable standards of conduct and performance of al-CCRAeda. From
the very beginning this sordid affair has brought into sharp focus the
ineptitude, moral turpitude and shoddy practices that characterise
al-CCRAeda's operations as it sluices off the wealth of Canadians for
waste and profligate indulgence on wasteful projects and pocket-lining
ventures of people living well off the taxpayers and the federal
government.
The Sherrin debacle throws up the terrible damage inflicted on
taxpayers by auditors who are not accountants and do not know how to
audit. It turns the spotlight on collection clerks who complete stacks
of al-CCRAeda's tax demand forms to circulate with reckless abandon
and at random among clusters of local banks. Clerical tiddlers with
the statutory jaws of tiger sharks are empowered by Canada's draconian
Income Tax Act to destroy at a stroke of a pen the integrity,
reputation and livelihood of any person who suffers the misfortune to
become entangled in al-CCRAeda's coils.
The Sherrin affair brings to light the arrogance and rudeness of
run-of-the-mill clerks who can't be bothered to respond to letters
from taxpayers.
The collector HESPE, for instance, who made a special call on a
Victoria business owner to coerce him into diverting Sherrin's account
of $ 945.18 to al-CCRAeda even though she knew quite well Sherrin had
already overpaid her GST by several thousands of dollars CHOSE TO
IGNORE letters mailed to her on May 28, June 4, June 7, June 10, June
17, June 20, June 21, June 23, June 27, July 25 and August 5, 2003
about Sherrin's account. It is strangely characteristic of many of
al-CCRAeda's clerks that they seem to believe if they disregard
letters they receive from taxpayers then the taxpayers will go away.
But taxpayers will not go away.
The unfortunate Sherrin affair is but one of thousands of Canadian
taxpayers caught up in the officious and high handed treatment by
pushy al-CCRAedarites. In the course of one year, it is possible,
perhaps, to intercept a dozen or so victimised taxpayers and render
them assistance, but it is like taking a thimble to Niagara to stem
the flow.
Nonetheless we do manage on occasion to intercede with some success.
To appear shortly in this series we shall relate the woeful tales of
Poor John of Kamloops, Black Thursday on Vincent Avenue, The Fort St.
John $1.5 million short-order cook, and the Rape of Bonny Munn.
Al-CCRAeda's Chamber of Horrors is full of them.
Sooner or later Canadians will awaken to the realisation that they
live in a country under the yoke of a federal government that is out
of control, and whose maladministered operations rely on its
taxation-terrorist arm, al-CCRAeda.
al-CCRAeda simply has to go, together with the insidious cult of
al-CCRAedarism and its equally noxious mobs of al-CCRAedarites.
Quantrell
2004-01-31 08:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Q) Gee, where have we heard this rant before?
Post by Nemesis
In fact somebody should start a web page identifying all gov-goon
co-conspirators who aid or abett government racketeering and the
looting of the peoples property.
Name, address, phone numbera photograph, the nature of their offence
against the people, this should include judges, politicans, snivels,
goons, and all related rabble.
In short any worthless thug who spends his time looting the property
of others instead of earning a living like the rest of us must be
included in this exposition. The many good judges, bureaucrats and
government officers will naturally be exluded.
I would offer financial support for such a project. We would need a
team of investigators who study political corruption, judicial
decisions, collect data, take photographs of individuals, and write
reports etc. We would place adds in major newspapers inviting public
participation.
Any government official who refuses to divulge government information
to which the people are always entitled is immediately included in the
list.
Goon Herby for example gets an honourable mention as monkey moron
gov-goon of the year. (Government Investigator my ass, this fuck used
to work with Alan Baggett for CCRA) Ladies bathroom gossip liason in
charge of stealing peoples chump change maybe!
What do you think people?
Nemesis
Q) I think you are an helpless, wrinkled, old loser.
Post by Nemesis
Post by Tony Sparr
Post by Nemesis
Alan, please shed some additional light on goon Herby, he has become
of interest to me. Whatever information you might share would be
helpful. Age, career history, marital status, sexual orientation,
place of residence, but most importantly embarrassing little details
are important.
This hypocritical scum is accusing you of breaching confidentiality
yet as a current employee of CCRA is spilling the beans on Daniel
Lavigne. This is typical of gov-goon double standards.
These filthy degenerates are collecting tax dollars used against the
interests of the people in every way, we're not just talking about
government waste but actual treason.
Check out the following link for one among hundreds of examples.
www.lifeboatnews.com
Free trade, monetary policy, privatization of publicly funded
projects, globalization, government collusion with drug trafficking,
suspicious assassinations, selective prosecutions and investigations,
smear campaigns against resisters etc etc etc etc, all these things
have been well exposed and documented by credible insiders and well
informed sources in some cases at the cost of peoples lives.
Then we have a plethora of illegal gun control laws, illegal search
and seizure laws, illegal law to violate our rights against government
fabricated terrorist, illegal secret evidence laws, illegal laws to
force us to consume poison, laws to steal from us, laws that limit our
rights to information, illegal laws that interfere with our right to
travel and to our commercial pursuits, etc etc etc.
We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to deprive our
treasonous government of its revenues and to mount opposition in every
way.
Do your part.
Nemesis.
Post by Nemesis
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.
Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.
Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet, and, they do not want anyone to know of the harm they do ?
Come on, people, let us start naming the warm bodies from CCRA from
all over the country ? The REAL names of the gov-goons who have
damaged you, or anyone you know.
There is no such thing as defamation/libel when we simply tell the
truth ? a concept that is totally alien to anyone from CCRA.
Tony
Nemesis
2004-01-31 19:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Stupid people ain't smart. lol
Post by Quantrell
Q) Gee, where have we heard this rant before?
Post by Nemesis
In fact somebody should start a web page identifying all gov-goon
co-conspirators who aid or abett government racketeering and the
looting of the peoples property.
Name, address, phone numbera photograph, the nature of their offence
against the people, this should include judges, politicans, snivels,
goons, and all related rabble.
In short any worthless thug who spends his time looting the property
of others instead of earning a living like the rest of us must be
included in this exposition. The many good judges, bureaucrats and
government officers will naturally be exluded.
I would offer financial support for such a project. We would need a
team of investigators who study political corruption, judicial
decisions, collect data, take photographs of individuals, and write
reports etc. We would place adds in major newspapers inviting public
participation.
Any government official who refuses to divulge government information
to which the people are always entitled is immediately included in the
list.
Goon Herby for example gets an honourable mention as monkey moron
gov-goon of the year. (Government Investigator my ass, this fuck used
to work with Alan Baggett for CCRA) Ladies bathroom gossip liason in
charge of stealing peoples chump change maybe!
What do you think people?
Nemesis
Q) I think you are an helpless, wrinkled, old loser.
Post by Nemesis
Post by Tony Sparr
Post by Nemesis
Alan, please shed some additional light on goon Herby, he has become
of interest to me. Whatever information you might share would be
helpful. Age, career history, marital status, sexual orientation,
place of residence, but most importantly embarrassing little details
are important.
This hypocritical scum is accusing you of breaching confidentiality
yet as a current employee of CCRA is spilling the beans on Daniel
Lavigne. This is typical of gov-goon double standards.
These filthy degenerates are collecting tax dollars used against the
interests of the people in every way, we're not just talking about
government waste but actual treason.
Check out the following link for one among hundreds of examples.
www.lifeboatnews.com
Free trade, monetary policy, privatization of publicly funded
projects, globalization, government collusion with drug trafficking,
suspicious assassinations, selective prosecutions and investigations,
smear campaigns against resisters etc etc etc etc, all these things
have been well exposed and documented by credible insiders and well
informed sources in some cases at the cost of peoples lives.
Then we have a plethora of illegal gun control laws, illegal search
and seizure laws, illegal law to violate our rights against government
fabricated terrorist, illegal secret evidence laws, illegal laws to
force us to consume poison, laws to steal from us, laws that limit our
rights to information, illegal laws that interfere with our right to
travel and to our commercial pursuits, etc etc etc.
We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to deprive our
treasonous government of its revenues and to mount opposition in every
way.
Do your part.
Nemesis.
Post by Nemesis
Leave out low level scum employees..... not a chance! They are the
whores who make it all happen.
Whores like you who don't know the difference between a breach of
confidentiality by a CCRA employee and someone who has defected from
the department after coming to his senses and is now righteously
pursuing exposure of the truth.
Why don't you get a life by resigning from your own whoredoms and
against the people.
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet, and, they do not want anyone to know of the harm they do ?
Come on, people, let us start naming the warm bodies from CCRA from
all over the country ? The REAL names of the gov-goons who have
damaged you, or anyone you know.
There is no such thing as defamation/libel when we simply tell the
truth ? a concept that is totally alien to anyone from CCRA.
Tony
Fred Grosby
2004-01-31 07:02:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Sparr
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet ...
Really?

Here are a few I found. Took me maybe two minutes.

Stan Keyes, Minister of National Revenue
Alan Nymark, Commissioner of the CCRA
François Guimont, Deputy Commissioner of the CCRA
Board of Management:
Michael L. Turcotte, Chair
Camille Belliveau, FCGA, CFP
Esmail Bharwani, FCGA, FCCA, MBA, M.Sc.
L. Bernice Buckle
James J. Hewitt
William Grant Hinchey
Linda Yvonne Ivany, FCGA, CIRP
Frédéric Kieffer, Adm.A.
Howard A. Leeson, Ph.D.
James L. MacPhee, CA
Susan I. Paish
Stephen E. Rudin, MSPH, M. Ed., CHE
Brock A. Smith

Scarfed those names right off the CCRA web site.

Happy now?
Nemesis
2004-01-31 07:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Typical non substance response.

There's 40,000 of the little parasites running around, their names are
of no consequence unless associated with individual acts of thievery.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Tony Sparr
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet ...
Really?
Here are a few I found. Took me maybe two minutes.
Stan Keyes, Minister of National Revenue
Alan Nymark, Commissioner of the CCRA
François Guimont, Deputy Commissioner of the CCRA
Michael L. Turcotte, Chair
Camille Belliveau, FCGA, CFP
Esmail Bharwani, FCGA, FCCA, MBA, M.Sc.
L. Bernice Buckle
James J. Hewitt
William Grant Hinchey
Linda Yvonne Ivany, FCGA, CIRP
Frédéric Kieffer, Adm.A.
Howard A. Leeson, Ph.D.
James L. MacPhee, CA
Susan I. Paish
Stephen E. Rudin, MSPH, M. Ed., CHE
Brock A. Smith
Scarfed those names right off the CCRA web site.
Happy now?
Tony Sparr
2004-01-31 15:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Typical non substance response.
There's 40,000 of the little parasites running around, their names are
of no consequence unless associated with individual acts of thievery.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Tony Sparr
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet ...
Really?
Here are a few I found. Took me maybe two minutes.
Stan Keyes, Minister of National Revenue
Alan Nymark, Commissioner of the CCRA
François Guimont, Deputy Commissioner of the CCRA
Michael L. Turcotte, Chair
Camille Belliveau, FCGA, CFP
Esmail Bharwani, FCGA, FCCA, MBA, M.Sc.
L. Bernice Buckle
James J. Hewitt
William Grant Hinchey
Linda Yvonne Ivany, FCGA, CIRP
Frédéric Kieffer, Adm.A.
Howard A. Leeson, Ph.D.
James L. MacPhee, CA
Susan I. Paish
Stephen E. Rudin, MSPH, M. Ed., CHE
Brock A. Smith
Scarfed those names right off the CCRA web site.
Happy now?
This is a start: a list of the "Clerical tiddlers with the statutory
jaws of tiger sharks are empowered by Canada's draconian Income Tax
Act to destroy at a stroke of a pen the integrity, reputation and
livelihood of any person who suffers the misfortune to become
entangled in al-CCRAeda's coils.

P. FRANCIS
KEN SLAWSON
ROD MILLER
JOBINA MCLEOD
ROD MILLER
ALLAN TOCHER
HESPE

There is one page that that has started NAMING THE WARM BODIES FROM
CCRA

The graphic is inspired – a devilish vampire, clutching dollars with
fingernails like a can-opener and wearing a tie saying CCRA

http://www.al-ccraeda.com/chronicles/001.htm

THE SHEARING OF SHERRIN

Starting on January 30, 2001 with a Requirement to Pay (RTP) issued by
P. FRANCIS over the illegally rubber-stamped facsimile signature of
KEN SLAWSON, and, thereafter by a six RTP's rubber-stamp signed by
JOBINA MCLEOD and yet another four RTP's issued by ROD MILLER, all
capped by the final flourish of ALLAN TOCHER. Sherrin was being
systematically bombed out business and was at her wit's end.

Meanwhile, for good measure, tax refunds totalling $ 12,702,32 were
transferred from her income tax account to offset wild and highly
inaccurate GST assessments that were being assessed.

When I met Sherrin for the first time in March, 2003 she was in
desperate cash straits. Endless garnishees had drained her cash. I
reviewed her records from 1994 on, and soon realised that she owed
neither income tax nor GST. To the contrary it was clear that she had
been massively over-assessed and because of the wholesale statutory
theft of her salary she was due for a large tax refund.

Her tax troubles had been caused by an incompetent auditor named
RICHARD YOUNG who had added $ 8,538.08 to the years 1994, 1995 and
1996. It was quite clear that YOUNG had no idea of what he was doing,
yet, unfortunately since those three years had become statute-barred
there was nothing to be done about it.

For the next three years - 1997, 1998 and 1999 - Sherrin had a total
GST net liability of $ 2,410.37, an accurate computation which put the
lie to YOUNG'Searlier grotesque assessments. Then, for the years 2000
and 2001 Victoria's al-CCRAeda office went totally berserk and
assessed her $ 12,444.63 for GST.

By June 2003, all of Sherrin's GST and Income Tax returns had been
completed and filed, and she had a total refund of about $ 14,000.00
due to be paid to her.

Sherrin needed her refund in the worst way so I asked tax collector
HESPE to attend to it. Seven months and about eight HESPE letters
later Sherrin still awaits her money.

Meanwhile, since last June, the al-CCRAeda minions have decided to be
difficult! After waiting five months, and failing to respond to
numerous requests for her refund the VITSO al-CCRAeda decided to
demand an audit and an inspection of her business premises, together
with an "interview", before they would agree to refund her money.

Having massively over-assessed her in the first place, and then
over-garnisheeing her salary and customer accounts, and finally,
having waited the best part of 2003, at the last moment they decide to
demand to audit her records.

This shameless shearing of Sherrin is an arch example of the
deplorable standards of conduct and performance of al-CCRAeda. From
the very beginning this sordid affair has brought into sharp focus the
ineptitude, moral turpitude and shoddy practices that characterise
al-CCRAeda's operations as it sluices off the wealth of Canadians for
waste and profligate indulgence on wasteful projects and pocket-lining
ventures of people living well off the taxpayers and the federal
government.

The Sherrin debacle throws up the terrible damage inflicted on
taxpayers by auditors who are not accountants and do not know how to
audit. It turns the spotlight on collection clerks who complete stacks
of al-CCRAeda's tax demand forms to circulate with reckless abandon
and at random among clusters of local banks. Clerical tiddlers with
the statutory jaws of tiger sharks are empowered by Canada's draconian
Income Tax Act to destroy at a stroke of a pen the integrity,
reputation and livelihood of any person who suffers the misfortune to
become entangled in al-CCRAeda's coils.

The Sherrin affair brings to light the arrogance and rudeness of
run-of-the-mill clerks who can't be bothered to respond to letters
from taxpayers. The collector HESPE, for instance, who made a special
call on a Victoria business owner to coerce him into diverting
Sherrin's account of $ 945.18 to al-CCRAeda even though she knew quite
well Sherrin had already overpaid her GST by several thousands of
dollars chose to ignore letters mailed to her on May 28, June 4, June
7, June 10, June 17, June 20, June 21, June 23, June 27, July 25 and
August 5, 2003 about Sherrin's account. It is strangely characteristic
of many of al-CCRAeda's clerks that they seem to believe if they
disregard letters they receive from taxpayers then the taxpayers will
go away. But taxpayers will not go away.

The unfortunate Sherrin affair is but one of thousands of Canadian
taxpayers caught up in the officious and high handed treatment by
pushy al-CCRAedarites. In the course of one year, it is possible,
perhaps, to intercept a dozen or so victimised taxpayers and render
them assistance, but it is like taking a thimble to Niagara to stem
the flow.

Nonetheless we do manage on occasion to intercede with some success.
To appear shortly in this series we shall relate the woeful tales of
Poor John of Kamloops, Black Thursday on Vincent Avenue, The Fort St.
John $1.5 million short-order cook, and the Rape of Bonny Munn.
Al-CCRAeda's Chamber of Horrors is full of them.

Sooner or later Canadians will awaken to the realisation that they
live in a country under the yoke of a federal government that is out
of control, and whose maladministered operations rely on its
taxation-terrorist arm, al-CCRAeda.

al-CCRAeda simply has to go, together with the insidious cult of
al-CCRAedarism and its equally noxious mobs of al-CCRAedarites.
Fred Grosby
2004-01-31 16:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Tony Sparr
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet ...
Really?
Here are a few I found. Took me maybe two minutes.
Stan Keyes, Minister of National Revenue
Alan Nymark, Commissioner of the CCRA
François Guimont, Deputy Commissioner of the CCRA
Michael L. Turcotte, Chair
Camille Belliveau, FCGA, CFP
Esmail Bharwani, FCGA, FCCA, MBA, M.Sc.
L. Bernice Buckle
James J. Hewitt
William Grant Hinchey
Linda Yvonne Ivany, FCGA, CIRP
Frédéric Kieffer, Adm.A.
Howard A. Leeson, Ph.D.
James L. MacPhee, CA
Susan I. Paish
Stephen E. Rudin, MSPH, M. Ed., CHE
Brock A. Smith
Scarfed those names right off the CCRA web site.
Happy now?
Typical non substance response.
There's 40,000 of the little parasites running around, their names are
of no consequence unless associated with individual acts of thievery.
Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem.

Sparr asked for names. I gave him names. Yes, I gave him names to
demonstrate the vacuousness of his request, but if that's what he
wanted, that's what he got.

Silly, isn't it.

Equally silly is your distortion relative to "acts of thievery". What
CCRA is doing may be distasteful, and even offensive, but it is *not*
thievery. And remember, in Canada it is possible for an act to be
unconstitutional and legal at the same time. If you do not believe me
on that one, look up McKinney v. University of Guelph, in which the
Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the University could force McKinney
to retire at age 65, the constitutional prohibition on age
discrimination not withstanding.

Sucks, doesn't it.

But then, you choose to live in a country in which your
constitutional rights and freedoms can be suspended at any time, for
any reason whatsoever, or for no reason at all.
Nemesis
2004-01-31 19:58:22 UTC
Permalink
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption. Stand up have some guts and pull yourself together Fred
you're embarassing.

People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud and I for one won't submit to it. Because of attitudes like
yours we will soon be no different than any other banana republic.

No wonder you hit the bottle.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Tony Sparr
It appears that CCRA, the low level scum buckets that they are and the
culpable higher ups do not want their REAL names posted on the
internet ...
Really?
Here are a few I found. Took me maybe two minutes.
Stan Keyes, Minister of National Revenue
Alan Nymark, Commissioner of the CCRA
François Guimont, Deputy Commissioner of the CCRA
Michael L. Turcotte, Chair
Camille Belliveau, FCGA, CFP
Esmail Bharwani, FCGA, FCCA, MBA, M.Sc.
L. Bernice Buckle
James J. Hewitt
William Grant Hinchey
Linda Yvonne Ivany, FCGA, CIRP
Frédéric Kieffer, Adm.A.
Howard A. Leeson, Ph.D.
James L. MacPhee, CA
Susan I. Paish
Stephen E. Rudin, MSPH, M. Ed., CHE
Brock A. Smith
Scarfed those names right off the CCRA web site.
Happy now?
Typical non substance response.
There's 40,000 of the little parasites running around, their names are
of no consequence unless associated with individual acts of thievery.
Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem.
Sparr asked for names. I gave him names. Yes, I gave him names to
demonstrate the vacuousness of his request, but if that's what he
wanted, that's what he got.
Silly, isn't it.
Equally silly is your distortion relative to "acts of thievery". What
CCRA is doing may be distasteful, and even offensive, but it is *not*
thievery. And remember, in Canada it is possible for an act to be
unconstitutional and legal at the same time. If you do not believe me
on that one, look up McKinney v. University of Guelph, in which the
Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the University could force McKinney
to retire at age 65, the constitutional prohibition on age
discrimination not withstanding.
Sucks, doesn't it.
But then, you choose to live in a country in which your
constitutional rights and freedoms can be suspended at any time, for
any reason whatsoever, or for no reason at all.
Fred Grosby
2004-02-01 02:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.

I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.

Pathetic.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 02:49:08 UTC
Permalink
The constitution offers protection as does the British Common law and
just because some corrupt judge says otherwise doesn't make it so.

Get off the bottle you senile old drunk.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
Fred Grosby
2004-02-01 03:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
The constitution offers protection as does the British Common law and
just because some corrupt judge says otherwise doesn't make it so.
It is now apparent that you have never read the written portion of
Canada's constitution.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.
Post by Nemesis
Get off the bottle you senile old drunk.
Ah, the ad hominem attack, the last refuge of he who has lost the
argument on the merits.

Pathetic.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 04:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Hominemememe uh what?

Loser.... you're acting like a drunk, therefore I'm assuming that you
are one.

I have read the written portion of the Constitution. I have also
noticed your desperate attempts to get an endorsement from Jeneuth on
your pretence of infinite knowledge of nothing.

He thought you were full of shit too, just before he fled this
newsgroup and from my arguments on the "exclusive" matter.

Have you considered detox?
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
The constitution offers protection as does the British Common law and
just because some corrupt judge says otherwise doesn't make it so.
It is now apparent that you have never read the written portion of
Canada's constitution.
Your ignorance knows no bounds.
Post by Nemesis
Get off the bottle you senile old drunk.
Ah, the ad hominem attack, the last refuge of he who has lost the
argument on the merits.
Pathetic.
Fred Grosby
2004-02-01 16:45:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
The constitution offers protection as does the British Common law and
just because some corrupt judge says otherwise doesn't make it so.
It is now apparent that you have never read the written portion of
Canada's constitution.
Your ignorance knows no bounds.
Post by Nemesis
Get off the bottle you senile old drunk.
Ah, the ad hominem attack, the last refuge of he who has lost the
argument on the merits.
Pathetic.
Hominemememe uh what?
Loser.... you're acting like a drunk, therefore I'm assuming that you
are one.
I have read the written portion of the Constitution.
Then you have a reading comprehension problem.

Or maybe you're lying.

Whatever.

You've lost the argument on the merits, as demonstrated by your
resorting to gartuitous personal attack. Anything further would be a
waste of my time.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 19:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Your birth was a waste of your time, your life is a waste of time for
the rest of us.

It is always you who first resorts to personal attacks you stupid
hypocrite. You got what you deserve.

Have another drink Freddie.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
The constitution offers protection as does the British Common law and
just because some corrupt judge says otherwise doesn't make it so.
It is now apparent that you have never read the written portion of
Canada's constitution.
Your ignorance knows no bounds.
Post by Nemesis
Get off the bottle you senile old drunk.
Ah, the ad hominem attack, the last refuge of he who has lost the
argument on the merits.
Pathetic.
Hominemememe uh what?
Loser.... you're acting like a drunk, therefore I'm assuming that you
are one.
I have read the written portion of the Constitution.
Then you have a reading comprehension problem.
Or maybe you're lying.
Whatever.
You've lost the argument on the merits, as demonstrated by your
resorting to gartuitous personal attack. Anything further would be a
waste of my time.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 02:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Oh and in the U.S you have the same problem. The U.S Patriot act is
an even greater violation of constitutional rights than anything
coming down in Canada.

Your constitution is also supposed to pretect the people from this
type of abuse, but there'll be judges who'll say otherwise.

Just like the decision that the right to bear arms is a collective
right. Fucking bullshit it is.

Get off the bottle.
Post by Fred Grosby
Post by Nemesis
I love this roll over Rover and play dead attitude from you. You're
not even a Canadian but are willing to resign to government
corruption.
I am not subject to Canadian government corruption.
Post by Nemesis
People in Canada are losing their rights by government and judicial
fraud ..
They are losing their rights because their constitution gives
governments the power to take said rights away, for any reason
whatsoever, or for no reason at all. There's no fraud about it.
I referred you to McKinney v. University of Guelph. Apparently, you
have not bothered to read it, choosing instead to remain ignorant.
Pathetic.
Fred Grosby
2004-02-01 03:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Oh and in the U.S ...
Irrelevant. This is can.taxes, the subject is Canadian taxes, and the
country in question is Canada. Period.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 04:12:59 UTC
Permalink
That's right and our constitutional protections are just as valid as
yours, only they are enshrined in the British Common Law your
constitution is based upon.

You are a weak pushover who loves it in the ass in the U.S as much as
in Canada.

Then you started drinking to forget about your rectal pain. Now I
call that pathetic. Put a cork in it Freddie.
Post by Fred Grosby
Oh and in the U.S ...
Irrelevant. This is can.taxes, the subject is Canadian taxes, and the
country in question is Canada. Period.
Alan Baggett
2004-01-31 19:09:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure.
I know the facts too! And because I know (being intimately involved in
the affair) I know that either someone has misinformed you or that you
are a liar. I will assume the former.
Post by herbnormore
your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially.
Aren't you the guy who posted personal information of Mr. Lavigne onto
the usenet? Yes you are. Are you a CCRA employee? Yes you are. Is this
a breach of confidentiality? But of course your 'your twisted
self-righteous attitude' does not allow you to see this.
Post by herbnormore
Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
This speaks to you personally herb 'not my real name' normore.

You feel it is okay to spread untruths (I in particular seem to be the
object of your misguided affections) yet you are offended when I
simply relate the facts as they occurred.

You feel it is okay for me to reveal tax tales about management yet
not about 'low level' employees.

You feel that it is okay for you to air the personal and confidential
tax files of Canadians but not for another.

Now, doubtless, you can not see the irony in any of this. But I am
sure that readers here, regardless of their personal beliefs, can see
you for what you really are.
Nemesis
2004-01-31 20:07:54 UTC
Permalink
We sure can see goon Herby for what he is the sniveling swine. Tell
us Alan, does this guy work for CCRA, what's his position, what's his
location, and what's his contact phone #.

Please repond, and post it publicly for anyone to see.

Thank You.

Nemesis.
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure.
I know the facts too! And because I know (being intimately involved in
the affair) I know that either someone has misinformed you or that you
are a liar. I will assume the former.
Post by herbnormore
your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially.
Aren't you the guy who posted personal information of Mr. Lavigne onto
the usenet? Yes you are. Are you a CCRA employee? Yes you are. Is this
a breach of confidentiality? But of course your 'your twisted
self-righteous attitude' does not allow you to see this.
Post by herbnormore
Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
This speaks to you personally herb 'not my real name' normore.
You feel it is okay to spread untruths (I in particular seem to be the
object of your misguided affections) yet you are offended when I
simply relate the facts as they occurred.
You feel it is okay for me to reveal tax tales about management yet
not about 'low level' employees.
You feel that it is okay for you to air the personal and confidential
tax files of Canadians but not for another.
Now, doubtless, you can not see the irony in any of this. But I am
sure that readers here, regardless of their personal beliefs, can see
you for what you really are.
Alan Baggett
2004-02-01 18:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemesis
We sure can see goon Herby for what he is the sniveling swine. Tell
us Alan, does this guy work for CCRA, what's his position, what's his
location, and what's his contact phone #.
Please repond, and post it publicly for anyone to see.
I should have herbnormore analyzed sometime next week, Tuesday or
Wednesday. Because all this happened over the weekend I have to wait
for the offices to open on Monday to get in touch with some of my
insiders.

Strange isn't it how some people can only make you look bad by telling
a lie when to make them look bad you only have to tell the truth.

C'est la vie.
u***@127.0.0.1
2004-02-01 22:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Baggett
Strange isn't it how some people can only make you look bad by telling
a lie when to make them look bad you only have to tell the truth.
Excellent statement!

sometimes, truth and a lie are only a persons 'PERCEPTION''.

Just as life, is built around 'Conditioning & Perception'.
Nemesis
2004-02-01 22:37:58 UTC
Permalink
True and in the case of most people they have been conditioned to
perceive lies as truth and truth as lies.
Post by u***@127.0.0.1
Post by Alan Baggett
Strange isn't it how some people can only make you look bad by telling
a lie when to make them look bad you only have to tell the truth.
Excellent statement!
sometimes, truth and a lie are only a persons 'PERCEPTION''.
Just as life, is built around 'Conditioning & Perception'.
StaR
2004-04-15 02:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by u***@127.0.0.1
Post by Alan Baggett
Strange isn't it how some people can only make you look bad by telling
a lie when to make them look bad you only have to tell the truth.
Excellent statement!
sometimes, truth and a lie are only a persons 'PERCEPTION''.
Just as life, is built around 'Conditioning & Perception'.
This from the biggest liar around here? Jenuth the Liar, you are a
joke.

StaR
shockmonkey
2004-04-15 08:45:51 UTC
Permalink
1. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster
for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of
those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have
destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected
human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological
suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have
inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued
development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly
subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage
on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social
disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased
physical suffering even in "advanced" countries.

2. The industrial-technological system may survive or it may break
down. If it survives, it MAY eventually achieve a low level of
physical and psychological suffering, but only after passing through a
long and very painful period of adjustment and only at the cost of
permanently reducing human beings and many other living organisms to
engineered products and mere cogs in the social machine. Furthermore,
if the system survives, the consequences will be inevitable: There is
no way of reforming or modifying the system so as to prevent it from
depriving people of dignity and autonomy.

3. If the system breaks down the consequences will still be very
painful. But the bigger the system grows the more disastrous the
results of its breakdown will be, so if it is to break down it had
best break down sooner rather than later.

4. We therefore advocate a revolution against the industrial system.
This revolution may or may not make use of violence: it may be sudden
or it may be a relatively gradual process spanning a few decades. We
can't predict any of that. But we do outline in a very general way the
measures that those who hate the industrial system should take in
order to prepare the way for a revolution against that form of
society. This is not to be a POLITICAL revolution. Its object will be
to overthrow not governments but the economic and technological basis
of the present society.

5. In this article we give attention to only some of the negative
developments that have grown out of the industrial-technological
system. Other such developments we mention only briefly or ignore
altogether. This does not mean that we regard these other developments
as unimportant. For practical reasons we have to confine our
discussion to areas that have received insufficient public attention
or in which we have something new to say. For example, since there are
well-developed environmental and wilderness movements, we have written
very little about environmental degradation or the destruction of wild
nature, even though we consider these to be highly important.

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF MODERN LEFTISM
6. Almost everyone will agree that we live in a deeply troubled
society. One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of
our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can
serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern
society in general.

7. But what is leftism? During the first half of the 20th century
leftism could have been practically identified with socialism. Today
the movement is fragmented and it is not clear who can properly be
called a leftist. When we speak of leftists in this article we have in
mind mainly socialists, collectivists, "politically correct" types,
feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and
the like. But not everyone who is associated with one of these
movements is a leftist. What we are trying to get at in discussing
leftism is not so much a movement or an ideology as a psychological
type, or rather a collection of related types. Thus, what we mean by
"leftism" will emerge more clearly in the course of our discussion of
leftist psychology (Also, see paragraphs 227-230.)

8. Even so, our conception of leftism will remain a good deal less
clear than we would wish, but there doesn't seem to be any remedy for
this. All we are trying to do is indicate in a rough and approximate
way the two psychological tendencies that we believe are the main
driving force of modern leftism. We by no means claim to be telling
the WHOLE truth about leftist psychology. Also, our discussion is
meant to apply to modern leftism only. We leave open the question of
the extent to which our discussion could be applied to the leftists of
the 19th and early 20th century.

9. The two psychological tendencies that underlie modern leftism we
call "feelings of inferiority" and "oversocialization." Feelings of
inferiority are characteristic of modern leftism as a whole, while
oversocialization is characteristic only of a certain segment of
modern leftism; but this segment is highly influential.

FEELINGS OF INFERIORITY
10. By "feelings of inferiority" we mean not only inferiority feelings
in the strictest sense but a whole spectrum of related traits: low
self-esteem, feelings of powerlessness, depressive tendencies,
defeatism, guilt, self-hatred, etc. We argue that modern leftists tend
to have such feelings (possibly more or less repressed) and that these
feelings are decisive in determining the direction of modern leftism.

11. When someone interprets as derogatory almost anything that is said
about him (or about groups with whom he identifies) we conclude that
he has inferiority feelings or low self-esteem. This tendency is
pronounced among minority rights advocates, whether or not they belong
to the minority groups whose rights they defend. They are
hypersensitive about the words used to designate minorities. The terms
"negro," "oriental," "handicapped" or "chick" for an African, an
Asian, a disabled person or a woman originally had no derogatory
connotation. "Broad" and "chick" were merely the feminine equivalents
of "guy," "dude" or "fellow." The negative connotations have been
attached to these terms by the activists themselves. Some animal
rights advocates have gone so far as to reject the word "pet" and
insist on its replacement by "animal companion." Leftist
anthropologists go to great lengths to avoid saying anything about
primitive peoples that could conceivably be interpreted as negative.
They want to replace the word "primitive" by "nonliterate." They seem
almost paranoid about anything that might suggest that any primitive
culture is inferior to our own. (We do not mean to imply that
primitive cultures ARE inferior to ours. We merely point out the
hypersensitivity of leftish anthropologists.)

12. Those who are most sensitive about "politically incorrect"
terminology are not the average black ghetto-dweller, Asian immigrant,
abused woman or disabled person, but a minority of activists, many of
whom do not even belong to any "oppressed" group but come from
privileged strata of society. Political correctness has its stronghold
among university professors, who have secure employment with
comfortable salaries, and the majority of whom are heterosexual, white
males from middle-class families.

13. Many leftists have an intense identification with the problems of
groups that have an image of being weak (women), defeated (American
Indians), repellent (homosexuals), or otherwise inferior. The leftists
themselves feel that these groups are inferior. They would never admit
it to themselves that they have such feelings, but it is precisely
because they do see these groups as inferior that they identify with
their problems. (We do not suggest that women, Indians, etc., ARE
inferior; we are only making a point about leftist psychology).

14. Feminists are desperately anxious to prove that women are as
strong as capable as men. Clearly they are nagged by a fear that women
may NOT be as strong and as capable as men.

15. Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong,
good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western
civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The
reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not
correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West
because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so
forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in
primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he
GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points
out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in
Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the
leftist's real motive for hating America and the West. He hates
America and the West because they are strong and successful.

16. Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative",
"enterprise," "optimism," etc. play little role in the liberal and
leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic,
pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's needs for them,
take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense
of confidence in his own ability to solve his own problems and satisfy
his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of
competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.

17. Art forms that appeal to modern leftist intellectuals tend to
focus on sordidness, defeat and despair, or else they take an
orgiastic tone, throwing off rational control as if there were no hope
of accomplishing anything through rational calculation and all that
was left was to immerse oneself in the sensations of the moment.

18. Modern leftist philosophers tend to dismiss reason, science,
objective reality and to insist that everything is culturally
relative. It is true that one can ask serious questions about the
foundations of scientific knowledge and about how, if at all, the
concept of objective reality can be defined. But it is obvious that
modern leftist philosophers are not simply cool-headed logicians
systematically analyzing the foundations of knowledge. They are deeply
involved emotionally in their attack on truth and reality. They attack
these concepts because of their own psychological needs. For one
thing, their attack is an outlet for hostility, and, to the extent
that it is successful, it satisfies the drive for power. More
importantly, the leftist hates science and rationality because they
classify certain beliefs as true (i.e., successful, superior) and
other beliefs as false (i.e. failed, inferior). The leftist's feelings
of inferiority run so deep that he cannot tolerate any classification
of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or
inferior. This also underlies the rejection by many leftists of the
concept of mental illness and of the utility of IQ tests. Leftists are
antagonistic to genetic explanations of human abilities or behavior
because such explanations tend to make some persons appear superior or
inferior to others. Leftists prefer to give society the credit or
blame for an individual's ability or lack of it. Thus if a person is
"inferior" it is not his fault, but society's, because he has not been
brought up properly.

19. The leftist is not typically the kind of person whose feelings of
inferiority make him a braggart, an egotist, a bully, a self-promoter,
a ruthless competitor. This kind of person has not wholly lost faith
in himself. He has a deficit in his sense of power and self-worth, but
he can still conceive of himself as having the capacity to be strong,
and his efforts to make himself strong produce his unpleasant
behavior. [1] But the leftist is too far gone for that. His feelings
of inferiority are so ingrained that he cannot conceive of himself as
individually strong and valuable. Hence the collectivism of the
leftist. He can feel strong only as a member of a large organization
or a mass movement with which he identifies himself.

20. Notice the masochistic tendency of leftist tactics. Leftists
protest by lying down in front of vehicles, they intentionally provoke
police or racists to abuse them, etc. These tactics may often be
effective, but many leftists use them not as a means to an end but
because they PREFER masochistic tactics. Self-hatred is a leftist
trait.

21. Leftists may claim that their activism is motivated by compassion
or by moral principle, and moral principle does play a role for the
leftist of the oversocialized type. But compassion and moral principle
cannot be the main motives for leftist activism. Hostility is too
prominent a component of leftist behavior; so is the drive for power.
Moreover, much leftist behavior is not rationally calculated to be of
benefit to the people whom the leftists claim to be trying to help.
For example, if one believes that affirmative action is good for black
people, does it make sense to demand affirmative action in hostile or
dogmatic terms? Obviously it would be more productive to take a
diplomatic and conciliatory approach that would make at least verbal
and symbolic concessions to white people who think that affirmative
action discriminates against them. But leftist activists do not take
such an approach because it would not satisfy their emotional needs.
Helping black people is not their real goal. Instead, race problems
serve as an excuse for them to express their own hostility and
frustrated need for power. In doing so they actually harm black
people, because the activists' hostile attitude toward the white
majority tends to intensify race hatred.

22. If our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would
have to INVENT problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse
for making a fuss.

23. We emphasize that the foregoing does not pretend to be an accurate
description of everyone who might be considered a leftist. It is only
a rough indication of a general tendency of leftism.

OVERSOCIALIZATION
24. Psychologists use the term "socialization" to designate the
process by which children are trained to think and act as society
demands. A person is said to be well socialized if he believes in and
obeys the moral code of his society and fits in well as a functioning
part of that society. It may seem senseless to say that many leftists
are over-socialized, since the leftist is perceived as a rebel.
Nevertheless, the position can be defended. Many leftists are not such
rebels as they seem.

25. The moral code of our society is so demanding that no one can
think, feel and act in a completely moral way. For example, we are not
supposed to hate anyone, yet almost everyone hates somebody at some
time or other, whether he admits it to himself or not. Some people are
so highly socialized that the attempt to think, feel and act morally
imposes a severe burden on them. In order to avoid feelings of guilt,
they continually have to deceive themselves about their own motives
and find moral explanations for feelings and actions that in reality
have a non-moral origin. We use the term "oversocialized" to describe
such people. [2]

26. Oversocialization can lead to low self-esteem, a sense of
powerlessness, defeatism, guilt, etc. One of the most important means
by which our society socializes children is by making them feel
ashamed of behavior or speech that is contrary to society's
expectations. If this is overdone, or if a particular child is
especially susceptible to such feelings, he ends by feeling ashamed of
HIMSELF. Moreover the thought and the behavior of the oversocialized
person are more restricted by society's expectations than are those of
the lightly socialized person. The majority of people engage in a
significant amount of naughty behavior. They lie, they commit petty
thefts, they break traffic laws, they goof off at work, they hate
someone, they say spiteful things or they use some underhanded trick
to get ahead of the other guy. The oversocialized person cannot do
these things, or if he does do them he generates in himself a sense of
shame and self-hatred. The oversocialized person cannot even
experience, without guilt, thoughts or feelings that are contrary to
the accepted morality; he cannot think "unclean" thoughts. And
socialization is not just a matter of morality; we are socialized to
confirm to many norms of behavior that do not fall under the heading
of morality. Thus the oversocialized person is kept on a psychological
leash and spends his life running on rails that society has laid down
for him. In many oversocialized people this results in a sense of
constraint and powerlessness that can be a severe hardship. We suggest
that oversocialization is among the more serious cruelties that human
beings inflict on one another.

27. We argue that a very important and influential segment of the
modern left is oversocialized and that their oversocialization is of
great importance in determining the direction of modern leftism.
Leftists of the oversocialized type tend to be intellectuals or
members of the upper-middle class. Notice that university
intellectuals (3) constitute the most highly socialized segment of our
society and also the most left-wing segment.

28. The leftist of the oversocialized type tries to get off his
psychological leash and assert his autonomy by rebelling. But usually
he is not strong enough to rebel against the most basic values of
society. Generally speaking, the goals of today's leftists are NOT in
conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes
an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own, and then accuses
mainstream society of violating that principle. Examples: racial
equality, equality of the sexes, helping poor people, peace as opposed
to war, nonviolence generally, freedom of expression, kindness to
animals. More fundamentally, the duty of the individual to serve
society and the duty of society to take care of the individual. All
these have been deeply rooted values of our society (or at least of
its middle and upper classes (4) for a long time. These values are
explicitly or implicitly expressed or presupposed in most of the
material presented to us by the mainstream communications media and
the educational system. Leftists, especially those of the
oversocialized type, usually do not rebel against these principles but
justify their hostility to society by claiming (with some degree of
truth) that society is not living up to these principles.

29. Here is an illustration of the way in which the oversocialized
leftist shows his real attachment to the conventional attitudes of our
society while pretending to be in rebellion against it. Many leftists
push for affirmative action, for moving black people into
high-prestige jobs, for improved education in black schools and more
money for such schools; the way of life of the black "underclass" they
regard as a social disgrace. They want to integrate the black man into
the system, make him a business executive, a lawyer, a scientist just
like upper-middle-class white people. The leftists will reply that the
last thing they want is to make the black man into a copy of the white
man; instead, they want to preserve African American culture. But in
what does this preservation of African American culture consist? It
can hardly consist in anything more than eating black-style food,
listening to black-style music, wearing black-style clothing and going
to a black-style church or mosque. In other words, it can express
itself only in superficial matters. In all ESSENTIAL respects more
leftists of the oversocialized type want to make the black man conform
to white, middle-class ideals. They want to make him study technical
subjects, become an executive or a scientist, spend his life climbing
the status ladder to prove that black people are as good as white.
They want to make black fathers "responsible." they want black gangs
to become nonviolent, etc. But these are exactly the values of the
industrial-technological system. The system couldn't care less what
kind of music a man listens to, what kind of clothes he wears or what
religion he believes in as long as he studies in school, holds a
respectable job, climbs the status ladder, is a "responsible" parent,
is nonviolent and so forth. In effect, however much he may deny it,
the oversocialized leftist wants to integrate the black man into the
system and make him adopt its values.

30. We certainly do not claim that leftists, even of the
oversocialized type, NEVER rebel against the fundamental values of our
society. Clearly they sometimes do. Some oversocialized leftists have
gone so far as to rebel against one of modern society's most important
principles by engaging in physical violence. By their own account,
violence is for them a form of "liberation." In other words, by
committing violence they break through the psychological restraints
that have been trained into them. Because they are oversocialized
these restraints have been more confining for them than for others;
hence their need to break free of them. But they usually justify their
rebellion in terms of mainstream values. If they engage in violence
they claim to be fighting against racism or the like.

31. We realize that many objections could be raised to the foregoing
thumb-nail sketch of leftist psychology. The real situation is
complex, and anything like a complete description of it would take
several volumes even if the necessary data were available. We claim
only to have indicated very roughly the two most important tendencies
in the psychology of modern leftism.

32. The problems of the leftist are indicative of the problems of our
society as a whole. Low self-esteem, depressive tendencies and
defeatism are not restricted to the left. Though they are especially
noticeable in the left, they are widespread in our society. And
today's society tries to socialize us to a greater extent than any
previous society. We are even told by experts how to eat, how to
exercise, how to make love, how to raise our kids and so forth.

THE POWER PROCESS
33. Human beings have a need (probably based in biology) for something
that we will call the "power process." This is closely related to the
need for power (which is widely recognized) but is not quite the same
thing. The power process has four elements. The three most clear-cut
of these we call goal, effort and attainment of goal. (Everyone needs
to have goals whose attainment requires effort, and needs to succeed
in attaining at least some of his goals.) The fourth element is more
difficult to define and may not be necessary for everyone. We call it
autonomy and will discuss it later (paragraphs 42-44).

34. Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he
wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will
develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of
fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized.
Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that
leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of
fighting aristocracies that have to struggle to maintain their power.
But leisured, secure aristocracies that have no need to exert
themselves usually become bored, hedonistic and demoralized, even
though they have power. This shows that power is not enough. One must
have goals toward which to exercise one's power.

35. Everyone has goals; if nothing else, to obtain the physical
necessities of life: food, water and whatever clothing and shelter are
made necessary by the climate. But the leisured aristocrat obtains
these things without effort. Hence his boredom and demoralization.

36. Nonattainment of important goals results in death if the goals are
physical necessities, and in frustration if nonattainment of the goals
is compatible with survival. Consistent failure to attain goals
throughout life results in defeatism, low self-esteem or depression.

37. Thus, in order to avoid serious psychological problems, a human
being needs goals whose attainment requires effort, and he must have a
reasonable rate of success in attaining his goals.

SURROGATE ACTIVITIES
38. But not every leisured aristocrat becomes bored and demoralized.
For example, the emperor Hirohito, instead of sinking into decadent
hedonism, devoted himself to marine biology, a field in which he
became distinguished. When people do not have to exert themselves to
satisfy their physical needs they often set up artificial goals for
themselves. In many cases they then pursue these goals with the same
energy and emotional involvement that they otherwise would have put
into the search for physical necessities. Thus the aristocrats of the
Roman Empire had their literary pretentions; many European aristocrats
a few centuries ago invested tremendous time and energy in hunting,
though they certainly didn't need the meat; other aristocracies have
competed for status through elaborate displays of wealth; and a few
aristocrats, like Hirohito, have turned to science.

39. We use the term "surrogate activity" to designate an activity that
is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for
themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward, or let us
say, merely for the sake of the "fulfillment" that they get from
pursuing the goal. Here is a rule of thumb for the identification of
surrogate activities. Given a person who devotes much time and energy
to the pursuit of goal X, ask yourself this: If he had to devote most
of his time and energy to satisfying his biological needs, and if that
effort required him to use his physical and mental facilities in a
varied and interesting way, would he feel seriously deprived because
he did not attain goal X? If the answer is no, then the person's
pursuit of a goal X is a surrogate activity. Hirohito's studies in
marine biology clearly constituted a surrogate activity, since it is
pretty certain that if Hirohito had had to spend his time working at
interesting non-scientific tasks in order to obtain the necessities of
life, he would not have felt deprived because he didn't know all about
the anatomy and life-cycles of marine animals. On the other hand the
pursuit of sex and love (for example) is not a surrogate activity,
because most people, even if their existence were otherwise
satisfactory, would feel deprived if they passed their lives without
ever having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. (But
pursuit of an excessive amount of sex, more than one really needs, can
be a surrogate activity.)

40. In modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to
satisfy one's physical needs. It is enough to go through a training
program to acquire some petty technical skill, then come to work on
time and exert very modest effort needed to hold a job. The only
requirements are a moderate amount of intelligence, and most of all,
simple OBEDIENCE. If one has those, society takes care of one from
cradle to grave. (Yes, there is an underclass that cannot take
physical necessities for granted, but we are speaking here of
mainstream society.) Thus it is not surprising that modern society is
full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic
achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation,
climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods
far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional
physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues
that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of
white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities. These
are not always pure surrogate activities, since for many people they
may be motivated in part by needs other than the need to have some
goal to pursue. Scientific work may be motivated in part by a drive
for prestige, artistic creation by a need to express feelings,
militant social activism by hostility. But for most people who pursue
them, these activities are in large part surrogate activities. For
example, the majority of scientists will probably agree that the
"fulfillment" they get from their work is more important than the
money and prestige they earn.

41. For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less
satisfying than the pursuit of real goals ( that is, goals that people
would want to attain even if their need for the power process were
already fulfilled). One indication of this is the fact that, in many
or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities
are never satisfied, never at rest. Thus the money-maker constantly
strives for more and more wealth. The scientist no sooner solves one
problem than he moves on to the next. The long-distance runner drives
himself to run always farther and faster. Many people who pursue
surrogate activities will say that they get far more fulfillment from
these activities than they do from the "mundane" business of
satisfying their biological needs, but that it is because in our
society the effort needed to satisfy the biological needs has been
reduced to triviality. More importantly, in our society people do not
satisfy their biological needs AUTONOMOUSLY but by functioning as
parts of an immense social machine. In contrast, people generally have
a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities. have
a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities.

AUTONOMY
42. Autonomy as a part of the power process may not be necessary for
every individual. But most people need a greater or lesser degree of
autonomy in working toward their goals. Their efforts must be
undertaken on their own initiative and must be under their own
direction and control. Yet most people do not have to exert this
initiative, direction and control as single individuals. It is usually
enough to act as a member of a SMALL group. Thus if half a dozen
people discuss a goal among themselves and make a successful joint
effort to attain that goal, their need for the power process will be
served. But if they work under rigid orders handed down from above
that leave them no room for autonomous decision and initiative, then
their need for the power process will not be served. The same is true
when decisions are made on a collective bases if the group making the
collective decision is so large that the role of each individual is
insignificant [5]

43. It is true that some individuals seem to have little need for
autonomy. Either their drive for power is weak or they satisfy it by
identifying themselves with some powerful organization to which they
belong. And then there are unthinking, animal types who seem to be
satisfied with a purely physical sense of power(the good combat
soldier, who gets his sense of power by developing fighting skills
that he is quite content to use in blind obedience to his superiors).

44. But for most people it is through the power process-having a goal,
making an AUTONOMOUS effort and attaining t the goal-that self-esteem,
self-confidence and a sense of power are acquired. When one does not
have adequate opportunity to go throughout the power process the
consequences are (depending on the individual and on the way the power
process is disrupted) boredom, demoralization, low self-esteem,
inferiority feelings, defeatism, depression, anxiety, guilt,
frustration, hostility, spouse or child abuse, insatiable hedonism,
abnormal sexual behavior, sleep disorders, eating disorders, etc. [6]

SOURCES OF SOCIAL PROBLEMS
45. Any of the foregoing symptoms can occur in any society, but in
modern industrial society they are present on a massive scale. We
aren't the first to mention that the world today seems to be going
crazy. This sort of thing is not normal for human societies. There is
good reason to believe that primitive man suffered from less stress
and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than
modern man is. It is true that not all was sweetness and light in
primitive societies. Abuse of women and common among the Australian
aborigines, transexuality was fairly common among some of the American
Indian tribes. But is does appear that GENERALLY SPEAKING the kinds of
problems that we have listed in the preceding paragraph were far less
common among primitive peoples than they are in modern society.

46. We attribute the social and psychological problems of modern
society to the fact that that society requires people to live under
conditions radically different from those under which the human race
evolved and to behave in ways that conflict with the patterns of
behavior that the human race developed while living under the earlier
conditions. It is clear from what we have already written that we
consider lack of opportunity to properly experience the power process
as the most important of the abnormal conditions to which modern
society subjects people. But it is not the only one. Before dealing
with disruption of the power process as a source of social problems we
will discuss some of the other sources.

47. Among the abnormal conditions present in modern industrial society
are excessive density of population, isolation of man from nature,
excessive rapidity of social change and the break-down of natural
small-scale communities such as the extended family, the village or
the tribe.

48. It is well known that crowding increases stress and aggression.
The degree of crowding that exists today and the isolation of man from
nature are consequences of technological progress. All pre-industrial
societies were predominantly rural. The industrial Revolution vastly
increased the size of cities and the proportion of the population that
lives in them, and modern agricultural technology has made it possible
for the Earth to support a far denser population than it ever did
before. (Also, technology exacerbates the effects of crowding because
it puts increased disruptive powers in people's hands. For example, a
variety of noise-making devices: power mowers, radios, motorcycles,
etc. If the use of these devices is unrestricted, people who want
peace and quiet are frustrated by the noise. If their use is
restricted, people who use the devices are frustrated by the
regulations... But if these machines had never been invented there
would have been no conflict and no frustration generated by them.)

49. For primitive societies the natural world (which usually changes
only slowly) provided a stable framework and therefore a sense of
security. In the modern world it is human society that dominates
nature rather than the other way around, and modern society changes
very rapidly owing to technological change. Thus there is no stable
framework.

50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of
traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological
progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that
you can't make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the
economy of a society with out causing rapid changes in all other
aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably
break down traditional values.

51.The breakdown of traditional values to some extent implies the
breakdown of the bonds that hold together traditional small-scale
social groups. The disintegration of small-scale social groups is also
promoted by the fact that modern conditions often require or tempt
individuals to move to new locations, separating themselves from their
communities. Beyond that, a technological society HAS TO weaken family
ties and local communities if it is to function efficiently. In modern
society an individual's loyalty must be first to the system and only
secondarily to a small-scale community, because if the internal
loyalties of small-scale small-scale communities were stronger than
loyalty to the system, such communities would pursue their own
advantage at the expense of the system.

52. Suppose that a public official or a corporation executive appoints
his cousin, his friend or his co-religionist to a position rather than
appointing the person best qualified for the job. He has permitted
personal loyalty to supersede his loyalty to the system, and that is
"nepotism" or "discrimination," both of which are terrible sins in
modern society. Would-be industrial societies that have done a poor
job of subordinating personal or local loyalties to loyalty to the
system are usually very inefficient. (Look at Latin America.) Thus an
advanced industrial society can tolerate only those small-scale
communities that are emasculated, tamed and made into tools of the
system. [7]

53. Crowding, rapid change and the breakdown of communities have been
widely recognized as sources of social problems. but we do not believe
they are enough to account for the extent of the problems that are
seen today.

54. A few pre-industrial cities were very large and crowded, yet their
inhabitants do not seem to have suffered from psychological problems
to the same extent as modern man. In America today there still are
uncrowded rural areas, and we find there the same problems as in urban
areas, though the problems tend to be less acute in the rural areas.
Thus crowding does not seem to be the decisive factor.

55. On the growing edge of the American frontier during the 19th
century, the mobility of the population probably broke down extended
families and small-scale social groups to at least the same extent as
these are broken down today. In fact, many nuclear families lived by
choice in such isolation, having no neighbors within several miles,
that they belonged to no community at all, yet they do not seem to
have developed problems as a result.

56.Furthermore, change in American frontier society was very rapid and
deep. A man might be born and raised in a log cabin, outside the reach
of law and order and fed largely on wild meat; and by the time he
arrived at old age he might be working at a regular job and living in
an ordered community with effective law enforcement. This was a deeper
change that that which typically occurs in the life of a modern
individual, yet it does not seem to have led to psychological
problems. In fact, 19th century American society had an optimistic and
self-confident tone, quite unlike that of today's society. [8]

57. The difference, we argue, is that modern man has the sense
(largely justified) that change is IMPOSED on him, whereas the 19th
century frontiersman had the sense (also largely justified) that he
created change himself, by his own choice. Thus a pioneer settled on a
piece of land of his own choosing and made it into a farm through his
own effort. In those days an entire county might have only a couple of
hundred inhabitants and was a far more isolated and autonomous entity
than a modern county is. Hence the pioneer farmer participated as a
member of a relatively small group in the creation of a new, ordered
community. One may well question whether the creation of this
community was an improvement, but at any rate it satisfied the
pioneer's need for the power process.

58. It would be possible to give other examples of societies in which
there has been rapid change and/or lack of close community ties
without he kind of massive behavioral aberration that is seen in
today's industrial society. We contend that the most important cause
of social and psychological problems in modern society is the fact
that people have insufficient opportunity to go through the power
process in a normal way. We don't mean to say that modern society is
the only one in which the power process has been disrupted. Probably
most if not all civilized societies have interfered with the power '
process to a greater or lesser extent. But in modern industrial
society the problem has become particularly acute. Leftism, at least
in its recent (mid-to-late -20th century) form, is in part a symptom
of deprivation with respect to the power process.

DISRUPTION OF THE POWER PROCESS IN MODERN SOCIETY
59. We divide human drives into three groups: (1) those drives that
can be satisfied with minimal effort; (2) those that can be satisfied
but only at the cost of serious effort; (3) those that cannot be
adequately satisfied no matter how much effort one makes. The power
process is the process of satisfying the drives of the second group.
The more drives there are in the third group, the more there is
frustration, anger, eventually defeatism, depression, etc.

60. In modern industrial society natural human drives tend to be
pushed into the first and third groups, and the second group tends to
consist increasingly of artificially created drives.

61. In primitive societies, physical necessities generally fall into
group 2: They can be obtained, but only at the cost of serious effort.
But modern society tends to guaranty the physical necessities to
everyone [9] in exchange for only minimal effort, hence physical needs
are pushed into group 1. (There may be disagreement about whether the
effort needed to hold a job is "minimal"; but usually, in lower- to
middle-level jobs, whatever effort is required is merely that of
obedience. You sit or stand where you are told to sit or stand and do
what you are told to do in the way you are told to do it. Seldom do
you have to exert yourself seriously, and in any case you have hardly
any autonomy in work, so that the need for the power process is not
well served.)

62. Social needs, such as sex, love and status, often remain in group
2 in modern society, depending on the situation of the individual.
[10] But, except for people who have a particularly strong drive for
status, the effort required to fulfill the social drives is
insufficient to satisfy adequately the need for the power process.

63. So certain artificial needs have been created that fall into group
2, hence serve the need for the power process. Advertising and
marketing techniques have been developed that make many people feel
they need things that their grandparents never desired or even dreamed
of. It requires serious effort to earn enough money to satisfy these
artificial needs, hence they fall into group 2. (But see paragraphs
80-82.) Modern man must satisfy his need for the power process largely
through pursuit of the artificial needs created by the advertising and
marketing industry [11], and through surrogate activities.

64. It seems that for many people, maybe the majority, these
artificial forms of the power process are insufficient. A theme that
appears repeatedly in the writings of the social critics of the second
half of the 20th century is the sense of purposelessness that afflicts
many people in modern society. (This purposelessness is often called
by other names such as "anomic" or "middle-class vacuity.") We suggest
that the so-called "identity crisis" is actually a search for a sense
of purpose, often for commitment to a suitable surrogate activity. It
may be that existentialism is in large part a response to the
purposelessness of modern life. [12] Very widespread in modern society
is the search for "fulfillment." But we think that for the majority of
people an activity whose main goal is fulfillment (that is, a
surrogate activity) does not bring completely satisfactory
fulfillment. In other words, it does not fully satisfy the need for
the power process. (See paragraph 41.) That need can be fully
satisfied only through activities that have some external goal, such
as physical necessities, sex, love, status, revenge, etc.

65. Moreover, where goals are pursued through earning money, climbing
the status ladder or functioning as part of the system in some other
way, most people are not in a position to pursue their goals
AUTONOMOUSLY. Most workers are someone else's employee as, as we
pointed out in paragraph 61, must spend their days doing what they are
told to do in the way they are told to do it. Even most people who are
in business for themselves have only limited autonomy. It is a chronic
complaint of small-business persons and entrepreneurs that their hands
are tied by excessive government regulation. Some of these regulations
are doubtless unnecessary, but for the most part government
regulations are essential and inevitable parts of our extremely
complex society. A large portion of small business today operates on
the franchise system. It was reported in the Wall Street Journal a few
years ago that many of the franchise-granting companies require
applicants for franchises to take a personality test that is designed
to EXCLUDE those who have creativity and initiative, because such
persons are not sufficiently docile to go along obediently with the
franchise system. This excludes from small business many of the people
who most need autonomy.

66. Today people live more by virtue of what the system does FOR them
or TO them than by virtue of what they do for themselves. And what
they do for themselves is done more and more along channels laid down
by the system. Opportunities tend to be those that the system
provides, the opportunities must be exploited in accord with the rules
and regulations [13], and techniques prescribed by experts must be
followed if there is to be a chance of success.

67. Thus the power process is disrupted in our society through a
deficiency of real goals and a deficiency of autonomy in pursuit of
goals. But it is also disrupted because of those human drives that
fall into group 3: the drives that one cannot adequately satisfy no
matter how much effort one makes. One of these drives is the need for
security. Our lives depend on decisions made by other people; we have
no control over these decisions and usually we do not even know the
people who make them. ("We live in a world in which relatively few
people - maybe 500 or 1,00 - make the important decisions" - Philip B.
Heymann of Harvard Law School, quoted by Anthony Lewis, New York
Times, April 21, 1995.) Our lives depend on whether safety standards
at a nuclear power plant are properly maintained; on how much
pesticide is allowed to get into our food or how much pollution into
our air; on how skillful (or incompetent) our doctor is; whether we
lose or get a job may depend on decisions made by government
economists or corporation executives; and so forth. Most individuals
are not in a position to secure themselves against these threats to
more [than] a very limited extent. The individual's search for
security is therefore frustrated, which leads to a sense of
powerlessness.

68. It may be objected that primitive man is physically less secure
than modern man, as is shown by his shorter life expectancy; hence
modern man suffers from less, not more than the amount of insecurity
that is normal for human beings. but psychological security does not
closely correspond with physical security. What makes us FEEL secure
is not so much objective security as a sense of confidence in our
ability to take care of ourselves. Primitive man, threatened by a
fierce animal or by hunger, can fight in self-defense or travel in
search of food. He has no certainty of success in these efforts, but
he is by no means helpless against the things that threaten him. The
modern individual on the other hand is threatened by many things
against which he is helpless; nuclear accidents, carcinogens in food,
environmental pollution, war, increasing taxes, invasion of his
privacy by large organizations, nation-wide social or economic
phenomena that may disrupt his way of life.

69. It is true that primitive man is powerless against some of the
things that threaten him; disease for example. But he can accept the
risk of disease stoically. It is part of the nature of things, it is
no one's fault, unless is the fault of some imaginary, impersonal
demon. But threats to the modern individual tend to be MAN-MADE. They
are not the results of chance but are IMPOSED on him by other persons
whose decisions he, as an individual, is unable to influence.
Consequently he feels frustrated, humiliated and angry.

70. Thus primitive man for the most part has his security in his own
hands (either as an individual or as a member of a SMALL group)
whereas the security of modern man is in the hands of persons or
organizations that are too remote or too large for him to be able
personally to influence them. So modern man's drive for security tends
to fall into groups 1 and 3; in some areas (food, shelter, etc.) his
security is assured at the cost of only trivial effort, whereas in
other areas he CANNOT attain security. (The foregoing greatly
simplifies the real situation, but it does indicate in a rough,
general way how the condition of modern man differs from that of
primitive man.)

71. People have many transitory drives or impulses that are necessary
frustrated in modern life, hence fall into group 3. One may become
angry, but modern society cannot permit fighting. In many situations
it does not even permit verbal aggression. When going somewhere one
may be in a hurry, or one may be in a mood to travel slowly, but one
generally has no choice but to move with the flow of traffic and obey
the traffic signals. One may want to do one's work in a different way,
but usually one can work only according to the rules laid down by
one's employer. In many other ways as well, modern man is strapped
down by a network of rules and regulations (explicit or implicit) that
frustrate many of his impulses and thus interfere with the power
process. Most of these regulations cannot be disposed with, because
the are necessary for the functioning of industrial society.

72. Modern society is in certain respects extremely permissive. In
matters that are irrelevant to the functioning of the system we can
generally do what we please. We can believe in any religion we like
(as long as it does not encourage behavior that is dangerous to the
system). We can go to bed with anyone we like (as long as we practice
"safe sex"). We can do anything we like as long as it is UNIMPORTANT.
But in all IMPORTANT matters the system tends increasingly to regulate
our behavior.

73. Behavior is regulated not only through explicit rules and not only
by the government. Control is often exercised through indirect
coercion or through psychological pressure or manipulation, and by
organizations other than the government, or by the system as a whole.
Most large organizations use some form of propaganda [14] to
manipulate public attitudes or behavior. Propaganda is not limited to
"commercials" and advertisements, and sometimes it is not even
consciously intended as propaganda by the people who make it. For
instance, the content of entertainment programming is a powerful form
of propaganda. An example of indirect coercion: There is no law that
says we have to go to work every day and follow our employer's orders.
Legally there is nothing to prevent us from going to live in the wild
like primitive people or from going into business for ourselves. But
in practice there is very little wild country left, and there is room
in the economy for only a limited number of small business owners.
Hence most of us can survive only as someone else's employee.

74. We suggest that modern man's obsession with longevity, and with
maintaining physical vigor and sexual attractiveness to an advanced
age, is a symptom of unfulfillment resulting from deprivation with
respect to the power process. The "mid-life crisis" also is such a
symptom. So is the lack of interest in having children that is fairly
common in modern society but almost unheard-of in primitive societies.

75. In primitive societies life is a succession of stages. The needs
and purposes of one stage having been fulfilled, there is no
particular reluctance about passing on to the next stage. A young man
goes through the power process by becoming a hunter, hunting not for
sport or for fulfillment but to get meat that is necessary for food.
(In young women the process is more complex, with greater emphasis on
social power; we won't discuss that here.) This phase having been
successfully passed through, the young man has no reluctance about
settling down to the responsibilities of raising a family. (In
contrast, some modern people indefinitely postpone having children
because they are too busy seeking some kind of "fulfillment." We
suggest that the fulfillment they need is adequate experience of the
power process -- with real goals instead of the artificial goals of
surrogate activities.) Again, having successfully raised his children,
going through the power process by providing them with the physical
necessities, the primitive man feels that his work is done and he is
prepared to accept old age (if he survives that long) and death. Many
modern people, on the other hand, are disturbed by the prospect of
death, as is shown by the amount of effort they expend trying to
maintain their physical condition, appearance and health. We argue
that this is due to unfulfillment resulting from the fact that they
have never put their physical powers to any use, have never gone
through the power process using their bodies in a serious way. It is
not the primitive man, who has used his body daily for practical
purposes, who fears the deterioration of age, but the modern man, who
has never had a practical use for his body beyond walking from his car
to his house. It is the man whose need for the power process has been
satisfied during his life who is best prepared to accept the end of
that life.

76. In response to the arguments of this section someone will say,
"Society must find a way to give people the opportunity to go through
the power process." For such people the value of the opportunity is
destroyed by the very fact that society gives it to them. What they
need is to find or make their own opportunities. As long as the system
GIVES them their opportunities it still has them on a leash. To attain
autonomy they must get off that leash.

HOW SOME PEOPLE ADJUST
77. Not everyone in industrial-technological society suffers from
psychological problems. Some people even profess to be quite satisfied
with society as it is. We now discuss some of the reasons why people
differ so greatly in their response to modern society.

78. First, there doubtless are differences in the strength of the
drive for power. Individuals with a weak drive for power may have
relatively little need to go through the power process, or at least
relatively little need for autonomy in the power process. These are
docile types who would have been happy as plantation darkies in the
Old South. (We don't mean to sneer at "plantation darkies" of the Old
South. To their credit, most of the slaves were NOT content with their
servitude. We do sneer at people who ARE content with servitude.)

79. Some people may have some exceptional drive, in pursuing which
they satisfy their need for the power process. For example, those who
have an unusually strong drive for social status may spend their whole
lives climbing the status ladder without ever getting bored with that
game.

80. People vary in their susceptibility to advertising and marketing
techniques. Some people are so susceptible that, even if they make a
great deal of money, they cannot satisfy their constant craving for
the shiny new toys that the marketing industry dangles before their
eyes. So they always feel hard-pressed financially even if their
income is large, and their cravings are frustrated.

81. Some people have low susceptibility to advertising and marketing
techniques. These are the people who aren't interested in money.
Material acquisition does not serve their need for the power process.

82. People who have medium susceptibility to advertising and marketing
techniques are able to earn enough money to satisfy their craving for
goods and services, but only at the cost of serious effort (putting in
overtime, taking a second job, earning promotions, etc.) Thus material
acquisition serves their need for the power process. But it does not
necessarily follow that their need is fully satisfied. They may have
insufficient autonomy in the power process (their work may consist of
following orders) and some of their drives may be frustrated (e.g.,
security, aggression). (We are guilty of oversimplification in
paragraphs 80-82 because we have assumed that the desire for material
acquisition is entirely a creation of the advertising and marketing
industry. Of course it's not that simple.

83. Some people partly satisfy their need for power by identifying
themselves with a powerful organization or mass movement. An
individual lacking goals or power joins a movement or an organization,
adopts its goals as his own, then works toward these goals. When some
of the goals are attained, the individual, even though his personal
efforts have played only an insignificant part in the attainment of
the goals, feels (through his identification with the movement or
organization) as if he had gone through the power process. This
phenomenon was exploited by the fascists, nazis and communists. Our
society uses it, too, though less crudely. Example: Manuel Noriega was
an irritant to the U.S. (goal: punish Noriega). The U.S. invaded
Panama (effort) and punished Noriega (attainment of goal). The U.S.
went through the power process and many Americans, because of their
identification with the U.S., experienced the power process
vicariously. Hence the widespread public approval of the Panama
invasion; it gave people a sense of power. [15] We see the same
phenomenon in armies, corporations, political parties, humanitarian
organizations, religious or ideological movements. In particular,
leftist movements tend to attract people who are seeking to satisfy
their need for power. But for most people identification with a large
organization or a mass movement does not fully satisfy the need for
power.

84. Another way in which people satisfy their need for the power
process is through surrogate activities. As we explained in paragraphs
38-40, a surrogate activity that is directed toward an artificial goal
that the individual pursues for the sake of the "fulfillment" that he
gets from pursuing the goal, not because he needs to attain the goal
itself. For instance, there is no practical motive for building
enormous muscles, hitting a little ball into a hole or acquiring a
complete series of postage stamps. Yet many people in our society
devote themselves with passion to bodybuilding, golf or stamp
collecting. Some people are more "other-directed" than others, and
therefore will more readily attack importance to a surrogate activity
simply because the people around them treat it as important or because
society tells them it is important. That is why some people get very
serious about essentially trivial activities such as sports, or
bridge, or chess, or arcane scholarly pursuits, whereas others who are
more clear-sighted never see these things as anything but the
surrogate activities that they are, and consequently never attach
enough importance to them to satisfy their need for the power process
in that way. It only remains to point out that in many cases a
person's way of earning a living is also a surrogate activity. Not a
PURE surrogate activity, since part of the motive for the activity is
to gain the physical necessities and (for some people) social status
and the luxuries that advertising makes them want. But many people put
into their work far more effort than is necessary to earn whatever
money and status they require, and this extra effort constitutes a
surrogate activity. This extra effort, together with the emotional
investment that accompanies it, is one of the most potent forces
acting toward the continual development and perfecting of the system,
with negative consequences for individual freedom (see paragraph 131).
Especially, for the most creative scientists and engineers, work tends
to be largely a surrogate activity. This point is so important that is
deserves a separate discussion, which we shall give in a moment
(paragraphs 87-92).

85. In this section we have explained how many people in modern
society do satisfy their need for the power process to a greater or
lesser extent. But we think that for the majority of people the need
for the power process is not fully satisfied. In the first place,
those who have an insatiable drive for status, or who get firmly
"hooked" or a surrogate activity, or who identify strongly enough with
a movement or organization to satisfy their need for power in that
way, are exceptional personalities. Others are not fully satisfied
with surrogate activities or by identification with an organization
(see paragraphs 41, 64). In the second place, too much control is
imposed by the system through explicit regulation or through
socialization, which results in a deficiency of autonomy, and in
frustration due to the impossibility of attaining certain goals and
the necessity of restraining too many impulses.

86. But even if most people in industrial-technological society were
well satisfied, we (FC) would still be opposed to that form of
society, because (among other reasons) we consider it demeaning to
fulfill one's need for the power process through surrogate activities
or through identification with an organization, rather then through
pursuit of real goals.
Post by StaR
Post by u***@127.0.0.1
Post by Alan Baggett
Strange isn't it how some people can only make you look bad by telling
a lie when to make them look bad you only have to tell the truth.
Excellent statement!
sometimes, truth and a lie are only a persons 'PERCEPTION''.
Just as life, is built around 'Conditioning & Perception'.
This from the biggest liar around here? Jenuth the Liar, you are a
joke.
StaR
Ron
2004-02-01 22:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by herbnormore
Alan, I know the facts of your departure. your twisted self-righteous
attitude won't change that.After all these years, I would have thought
you would have moved on and actually gotten a life. You have mentioned
numerous individual taxpayers in your postings over the past few
months which are breaches of confidentially. Even more disgusting is
your attack on innocent, low level employees. If you want to attack
CCRA or management that's fine. Just leave the front line employees
out of your life long vendetta.
Front line cannon fodder take the shrapnel so that the officers don't have to.

Don't you know anything lil'herbyho'?
Post by herbnormore
Post by Alan Baggett
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
Just because an individual or an organization has a beef with the
Federal Tax Agency does not make them a 'de-taxer' it simply means
that they have a point of disagreement - though indeed that individual
or organization may advocate detax theories.
Alan is quite willing to assist any one (pro-tax, anti-tax, de-tax or
just plain confused) who wants to know how the system works, what
their rights are, what questions to ask, how best they might protect
their assets and so on.
Alan has provided assistance right across Canada and internationally
as well.
Although this next point is unsubtantiated by me I have been told by a
number of Canadians that Alan's TCB has helped them win cases in court
(eight times now).
Mr Baggett did not retire from the Federal Tax Agency because he knew
too little, he retired because he knew too much.
b***@yahoo.com
2013-10-11 17:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
He resigned himself to living in a tiny bedroom, coming out only to eat or scavenge the unwanted garbage thrown out by neighbours so he can sell on e-bay and avoid paying taxes.

(My question for you. . . . He didn't "leave" CCRA by choice, did he? The family has become etremely worried about his self-ostracization and would like to understand what happened to him)
Canuck57
2013-10-13 15:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by herbnormore
alan, how did you get mixed up with these Detaxers ??? What happened
after you "left" CCRA ??
He resigned himself to living in a tiny bedroom, coming out only to eat or scavenge the unwanted garbage thrown out by neighbours so he can sell on e-bay and avoid paying taxes.
(My question for you. . . . He didn't "leave" CCRA by choice, did he? The family has become etremely worried about his self-ostracization and would like to understand what happened to him)
Maybe he didn't want to cut the mafia in arrears a big juicy check on
the taxpayers?
--
Socialist-statism corruption is a great idea so long as the credit is
good and other people pay for it. When the credit runs out and those
that pay for it leave, they can all share having nothing but
unemployment, debt and discontentment.
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